chinmusic: studios need full disclosure on vod policy - 5/30/12

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studios need full disclosure on vod policy

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Male Performer Chat: studios need full disclosure on vod policy

Created by: chinmusic

5/30/12 @ 2:33pm (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: 19,627
Posts: 20,898

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In the past few days I've had 3 vods deleted .

None of them were corrupt, as they were all available to me for approximately 48 hours. All involved the same model, and all involved a second model joining him. One was in studio, and two were at home. One was private, and 2 were multi-user.

Now I know there are rules regarding single and duo accounts, yet oddly there is a vod in this model's history that features a second guy, that has mysteriously dodged the knife.

My first move was to email VS, who quickly assured me it was out of their jurisdiction. I've spoken to the model, and I very highly doubt he is responsible. I'd love to speak to the studio administrator, but that ain't going to happen.

So you get a message stating "this recording is no longer available". Feels like a very expensive banning...

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Created by: ronnie-uk

5/30/12 @ 5:25pm (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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I think that is really unfair, and I would hate to have that happen to me. (Similar to A and K last year?)

I am a bit dubious about making parallels, because they are often flawed, but it is a bit like a shop assistant selling you something. She then says "My manager says I shouldn't have sold you that". She takes it back but doesn't give you your money back - yet you've done nothing wrong.

A full refund may not be in order, because you have had the pleasure of the live shows, but I think you could press for some kind of refund for having the VODs taken away from you. It may focus some minds. The best option would be to get your VODs back.

You might want to raise a Studio Issues topic in the General Discussions forum. There are other issues which members discuss with performers, and performers say they can't do anything - it is a studio matter. Members should be able to get answers - not a brick wall. Always a chance of getting a response from a studio manager there, directly or via VS.

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Created by: .jeffie.

5/30/12 @ 6:14pm (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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In the past few days I've had 3 vods deleted

If the VODs involved a second person appearing in a solo performer's room, then it's quite right that they should have been deleted. Possibly someone noticed the transgression and advised VS, who then deleted those VODs. That doesn't mean that VS would have then searched every one of that performer's VODs to see if transgressions also occurred in previous shows. I doubt that it had anything to do with the studio

I think you could press for some kind of refund for having the VODs taken away from you

Ronnie, you're kidding, right? A member pays a certain number of credits for a show whether or not he wants to subsequently view the VOD of the show if one is available

Always a chance of getting a response from a studio manager there, directly or via VS

I would say a very, very slim chance Ronnie. Have you known any issue to receive a response from a studio manager in the past?

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Created by: ronnie-uk

5/30/12 @ 7:00pm (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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Ronnie, you're kidding, right? A member pays a certain number of credits for a show whether or not he wants to subsequently view the VOD of the show

Surprisingly not, Jeffie :winkwink

When I raised my 7-day > unlimited topic in the GD forum, one member suggested that what we were paying for was the VOD. I suggested that what we were paying for was the live show, and that the VOD was a bonus. However, I think the true position is somewhere between the two.

I would not have done half the private shows I have done here if I didn't think I could watch the VOD afterwards. I have seen some great Group Chats where I have felt "I must do a pvt show so I can see that again whenever I like". I simply wouldn't have done those shows without the personal VOD - which also gives full screen option and no typing distractions

Perhaps it is relevant to ask: would chinmusic have done these 3 shows if he knew he couldn't watch the VODs whenever he liked...

I would say a very, very slim chance Ronnie. Have you known any issue to receive a response from a studio manager in the past?

In the last 2 or 3 months VS have started to make a bigger input to GD topics. If a number of members showed concerns about studio practices, I think that VS would raise this with the studios and we could get some studio response - directly or indirectly.

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Created by: .jeffie.

5/30/12 @ 7:22pm (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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Surprisingly not, Jeffie :winkwink

Perhaps it is relevant to ask: would chinmusic have done these 3 shows if he knew he couldn't watch the VODs whenever he liked

Ronnie, I'm not disputing any of this. My point is simply that a show costs the same whether or not a VOD is available and whether or not the member chooses to view the VOD. It is fatuous to suggest that a partial refund should be available if the VOD option is not available or if the member does not exercise all his options :angel

In the last 2 or 3 months VS have started to make a bigger input to GD topics. If a number of members showed concerns about studio practices, I think that VS would raise this with the studios and we could get some studio response - directly or indirectly

So, your answer to my question is "no" :orglaugh

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Created by: totallybogus

5/30/12 @ 9:28pm (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Posts: 75

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In the past few days I've had 3 vods deleted .

None of them were corrupt, as they were all available to me for approximately 48 hours. All involved the same model, and all involved a second model joining him. One was in studio, and two were at home. One was private, and 2 were multi-user.

Now I know there are rules regarding single and duo accounts, yet oddly there is a vod in this model's history that features a second guy, that has mysteriously dodged the knife.

Here's my question. Given that you know (roughly) the rules governing single and duo accounts, did you encourage the model to find another model for your enjoyment? If you did, then just be happy that you got to enjoy the show you wanted in the first place. If, however, this was a purely spontaneous event on all three occasions, then I suppose you might have cause to complain.

Bad studio! Yeah.

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Created by: .jeffie.

5/31/12 @ 12:25am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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Created by: male4622

5/31/12 @ 12:46am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: United States
Posts: 571

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I have had VOD deleted in the past for seemingly similar reasons. I don't like it, but I know it's par for the course with the shows I sometimes request.

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Created by: imacumluvr

5/31/12 @ 1:01am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Posts: 382

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If it involved a second person appearing in a solo performer's room, whether it was requested by chinmusic or it was "purely spontaneous", it was against the rules as it was in contravention of 18 USC Section 2257. VS would have been within their rights to not only delete the VODs but to terminate the model. And if chinmusic had encouraged the model to break the rules in this way they would have been within their rights to terminate his membership too

If the second person appearing in the solo performer's room is already a model registered on this site, there would be no violation of 18 USC Section 2257. It would just be a violation of the site's rules & regs.

just my :twocents

and now, back to the show .....

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Created by: chinmusic

5/31/12 @ 1:42am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: 19,627
Posts: 20,898

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I think that is really unfair, and I would hate to have that happen to me. (Similar to A and K last year?).

Gee Ronnie, you've got a great memory. But here's the kicker. I've had THAT vod back for months now. One day it inexplicably reappeared in my shows. Go figure! Oh, the irony. LOL

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Created by: ronnie-uk

5/31/12 @ 9:31am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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That does seem strange, chinmusic. If there is a VS or studio rule, it should be applied consistently and members and performers should know about it. If the VS or studio rule contains dismissible penalties, as Jeffie suggests, then it is essential we know about it. Those posting here are amongst the most enlightened Flirt4Free users, who regularly use the forums, and none of us have seen the rules that you are asking to see.

However, I'm pleased that you got the A and K VOD back

I don't know if you want to respond to my question to you at post #4. Your topic - so its up to you... :winkwink

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Created by: .jeffie.

5/31/12 @ 10:16am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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Those posting here are amongst the most enlightened Flirt4Free users, who regularly use the forums, and none of us have seen the rules that you are asking to see.

I have seen the rules

:bulb

Ronnie, your friend Adam Foxx purports to be conversant with the rules. Perhaps you could ask him if a second person is allowed in a solo performer's room

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Created by: phil_usa

5/31/12 @ 10:24am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Driving Down Thunder Road
Posts: 4,747

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...A 2nd person is not allowed in the room even if he is also a model. Unless they have a duo account.

...They can't even have a dog or cat stroll by without creating a panic to get them off the screen.

...We all know what has happened in the past when two models have appeared together when they were not using their duo account.

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Created by: chinmusic

5/31/12 @ 10:34am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: 19,627
Posts: 20,898

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Yes Ronnie, consistency, or lack thereof is the point of this topic.

In answer to your question at post #4... I was PREPARED to do the shows, although I sensed there might be a risk. Really, there is no consistency, so I wasn't sure what would happen. I will not do it again.

This model has successful group chats, and deservedly so. But the one downside is that they are not available for future viewing. So the "saving for posterity" aspect of shows is significant, and I consider it part of my purchase.

I was VERY pleased to get the A and K back, and for the life of me, I don't understand why it's even an issue.

Finally, what on earth is "18 USC Section 2257", and do I need to file a police report?

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Created by: .jeffie.

5/31/12 @ 10:38am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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what on earth is "18 USC Section 2257", and do I need to file a police report?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Protection_and_Obscenity_Enforcement_Act

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Created by: ronnie-uk

5/31/12 @ 10:54am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,381

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... but if the 2 performers are already age-certified on this site, and have their own accounts, and if the site includes lots of duo accounts anyway ...

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Created by: chinmusic

5/31/12 @ 10:58am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: 19,627
Posts: 20,898

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... but if the 2 performers are already age-certified on this site, and have their own accounts, and if the site includes lots of duo accounts anyway ...

precisely!

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Created by: totallybogus

5/31/12 @ 11:12am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Posts: 75

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... but if the 2 performers are already age-certified on this site, and have their own accounts, and if the site includes lots of duo accounts anyway ...

That may all be true, but there's still the question of actually paying the model -- for the initial show and future VOD rentals. Many studios pay duos at a different rate from solo models. Moreover, if models engage in ad hoc arrangements, how is the studio to keep track of them? You already know the answer: the studio won't. Instead, models will have to sort it out between themselves, and that can be a whole other story come payday.

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Created by: .jeffie.

5/31/12 @ 11:22am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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... but if the 2 performers are already age-certified on this site, and have their own accounts, and if the site includes lots of duo accounts anyway ...

Ronnie, if a second person appears in a solo performer's room, administrators from the site or elsewhere are unable to determine if that second person is another registered performer or not

You seem to be suggesting that it is unnecessary to register guy-guy rooms. Why do you think VS insists on it?

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Created by: phil_usa

5/31/12 @ 11:45am (EST) |UTC - 5:00
Location: Driving Down Thunder Road
Posts: 4,747

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... but if the 2 performers are already age-certified on this site, and have their own accounts, and if the site includes lots of duo accounts anyway ...

...They still have to have a duo account together and be logged into that account at the time of their show.

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