F4F is a rare business beast. There are few businesses that will allow themselves to be held to account and openly critized by means such as these forums. That is what helps to make F4F special as far as I am concerned. But there has to be a line. As Chris is not here to defend himself against some pretty serious accusations F4F were right to remove the topics. They had no other choice.

I have always opposed the use of these forums as a means to settle personal scores and grievances. That applies to models and membership. There are other ways like emailing the model concerned or alerting the F4F staff as described earlier. If you don't get a reply, email them again and again. But please do not cast doubts about someone's integrity when they are not around to defend themselves. Quote

My favorite snacks in the world are as follows (in no particular order): pretzels, vanilla bean ice cream, gummy worms, cold pizza, grapes, tangerines slices, instant mashed potatoes with chives and plenty of butter, Lucky Charms cereal, caprice salad, Butterfinger bars, Sour Patch Kids, Ranch Doritos and beaten to death horse jerky.



--Adam Foxx, The giant dildo King��



An affinity between above mentioned snack foods, and giant dildos, or what? Quote

F4F is a rare business beast. There are few businesses that will allow themselves to be held to account and openly critized by means such as these forums. That is what helps to make F4F special as far as I am concerned. But there has to be a line.

As Chris is not here to defend himself against some pretty serious accusations F4F were right to remove the topics. I feel they had no other choice.

I have always opposed the use of these forums as a means to settle personal scores and grievances. That applies to models and membership. There are other ways like emailing the model concerned or alerting the F4F staff as described earlier. If you don't get a reply, email them again and again. But please, do not cast doubts about someone's integrity when they are not around to defend themselves.



I totally agree, Zipper.

In the Chris Hunt case there is an underlying issue: whether performers should make loan arrangements with members to help them win contests. F4F allow much debate in the forums, as you say. I don't think they would object if there was friendly discussion, in the right places, on that general topic.

I hope that the topic is already being discussed freely in the Studio and Performers forum. I expect that some performers will have strong views on other performers winning contests in this way. If one does it, why not all?

I also think it is a good topic for the General Discussions forum, which can look at issues affecting the whole site (male and female performers). Are these loan arrangements fair, safe and within the rules?

Not suggesting further discussion about this here, in this "censorship" topic, when it could be discussed in more appropriate topics. Quote

My favorite snacks in the world are as follows (in no particular order): pretzels, vanilla bean ice cream, gummy worms, cold pizza, grapes, tangerines slices, instant mashed potatoes with chives and plenty of butter, Lucky Charms cereal, caprice salad, Butterfinger bars, Sour Patch Kids, Ranch Doritos and beaten to death horse jerky.



--Adam Foxx, The giant dildo King��



go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
whip it good

when a good time turns around
you must whip it
you will never live it down
unless you whip it
no one gets away
until they whip it

i say whip it
whip it good

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Well, here we go again. The person who is accused, that being Chris, voluntarily absented himself from the site, thereby, making it impossible to have him defend himself. As far as I can ascertain, the aforementioned individual last posted to his bio blog on January 3d, over two weeks ago now, that he was having connection problems with his computer while his female roommate and fellow model continued to have sessions on a regular basis. Have to also point out that he stated that he was using his phone to post that blog notice which means he could use it to update his followers any time he wanted to. If you want to make excuses for egregious behavior, that is fine but don't get all righteous about someone telling the truth. Unless the person in question is in a coma or maybe he broke both arms and hands, there is no excuse.

As for the forum to be used to discuss this, I believe the others that were mentioned are reserved for VIP members so that means it limits non-VIPs ability to post there. I am not going to waste 40 bucks just to be able to see those pay only forums no matter how often some people suggest it. For Jake Trenton who just posted here, nice work, Jake! How do you feel about promises, promises being used to win promo contests???
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I am not going to waste 40 bucks just to be able to see those pay only forums no matter how often some people suggest it.



Ouch! Just trying to be helpful.



You get lots more for your 40 bucks per month, of course, like being able to see VODs of 100 new private shows every day.
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beaten to death horse jerky.



--Adam Foxx, The giant dildo King��


Awwww.... Your cock isn't that beaten up. On the other hand you are up to two duo partners in less than two weeks, so we may have to re-evaluate.

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As for the discussion of censorship my original post "BEWARE" of a model that was openly being deceitful to members was "REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR". He had set up several profiles on F4F but has since closed all of them. What annoyed me was that I first emailed F4F about the model and when I did not receive any response I started a thread here in the forums but when it was removed I can only ascertain that F4F protects their models (even the deceitful ones) but offers no protection to their paying members. Quote

Posts 22 and 27 are completely off topic. Jake Trenton's post is one I don't know what he is trying to say but I like him as a model and he exhibits an intelligence that is refreshing. One night in his room there was a discussion of using correct grammar. Now as to censorship, I think it is apparent that the models and the site managers are the ones who matter, not the paying customers! Much as I hate to say it, I think that is the truth. Quote

The pot calling the kettle black generally means that someone is exhibiting the same behaviors that they are condemning elsewhere. Exactly how did the customers of the site cheat anyone out of anything?


Customers obviously haven't cheated or lied about anything and for me was never the issue. However, they are calling one model something while lauding another who is guilty of the same offense. I attribute this to they don't know any better, however, I do. I've seen the contrary.



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As for the forum to be used to discuss this, I believe the others that were mentioned are reserved for VIP members so that means it limits non-VIPs ability to post there. I am not going to waste 40 bucks just to be able to see those pay only forums no matter how often some people suggest it. For Jake Trenton who just posted here, nice work, Jake! How do you feel about promises, promises being used to win promo contests???



As always, buyer beware...

Promises here, like anywhere else, are based on trust. How well do you know the person promising something? If you don't have a relationship built on trust prior to being promised something, is there really any reason to believe that person will honor that promise?

It should be noted that uniformity among models in both their appearance and behavior is something I strongly oppose. How a model runs their room is between them and their paying customers, just as long as it doesn't violate the site rules. It's between the model and the member as to whether or not they want to make special arrangements. I'll go so far as to say that it should be somewhat evident by a model's experience and success on the site as to whether or not they are trustworthy, which is why I am a big fan of the badges on our bio pages.

So, have I/will I make arrangements with certain members? Yes, but only after getting to know them a bit and gradually building up to a certain level of trust. Have I told people to save their credits for an upcoming promo instead of regularly tipping? Yes, a few times, but I would never think of promising a show in the future for payment now because I can never be 100% certain that I will be able to fulfill my end of the bargain. Anything could happen to make me incapable of performing, so I won't take money for a service I haven't already provided. Frankly, if a model said to me as a member (FYI: I am a VIP member on the site.), "If you give me 1,000s of credits in tips now, I'll do a show for you later, bb" I would respond in about the same manner as when someone says "Get hard/Get changed and I'll go pvt, bb." ....which is something like, "No, I don't think that's going to happen. And stop saying 'bb', it makes you sound stupid and/or lazy." Quote

Excellent post, Jake. I hope didione and others agree

This is the kind of contribution I was hoping to see if someone started a separate topic about loan arrangements between performers and members. Someone might still do that, and copy your post there.

I have been trying here to bring out the distinction between:

- raising a topic about an issue, where negative experiences with one or two performers or members can be quoted as examples. (This is usually acceptable)

- raising a negative topic about a single performer or member. (This is usually not acceptable. The topic is likely to be "censored").

On the basic issue, I think your points about "trust" and "site rules" are absolutely the key. Quote

Thanks Jake, I think that was an awesome contribution to the discussion and everyone on here should keep that in mind when they decide to as Wimpy said in the Popeye cartoons, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!" Obviously, there is no way to hold anyone on here accountable for anything they promise, something I will definitely keep in mind. Quote